Comments on: Missing: The Business Case For PHP http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/ Stuart Herbert's PHP Blog - Architecture, Code, and Hosting Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:31:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Key http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-857 Key Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:52:58 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-857 I have found an older version of "PHP white Paper" on english. It could be found on. http://www.phpquebec.org/documents/phpquebec/PHPQuebec-livreblanc.en.0.5.1.pdf Im very interested for a new version of this paper. I have found an older version of “PHP white Paper” on english. It could be found on.

http://www.phpquebec.org/documents/phpquebec/PHPQuebec-livreblanc.en.0.5.1.pdf

Im very interested for a new version of this paper.

]]> By: Stu On PHP - » What Does The Business Case For PHP Need To Cover? http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-667 Stu On PHP - » What Does The Business Case For PHP Need To Cover? Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:04:42 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-667 [...] In my last post, I asked whether there was any interest in there being a resource that makes the business case for PHP. Many thanks to everyone who replied, especially David Goulden at Zend. [...] [...] In my last post, I asked whether there was any interest in there being a resource that makes the business case for PHP. Many thanks to everyone who replied, especially David Goulden at Zend. [...]

]]> By: Dennis Popel http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-111 Dennis Popel Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:17:53 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-111 Hello, Cyril, Would be helpful if you could have this in English :) Hello, Cyril,

Would be helpful if you could have this in English :)

]]> By: Cyril PIERRE de GEYER http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-94 Cyril PIERRE de GEYER Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:38:45 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-94 Hi, I am one of the French User Group AFUP founder. I am the team leader of the "PHP White Paper" : http://www.afup.org/docs/livre-blanc-php-en-entreprise-v4.pdf We made this document with 4-5 company. Each of them have his name on the white paper. So if I can help please ask. Cyril PIERRE de GEYER Hi,
I am one of the French User Group AFUP founder.
I am the team leader of the “PHP White Paper” :
http://www.afup.org/docs/livre-blanc-php-en-entreprise-v4.pdf

We made this document with 4-5 company. Each of them have his name on the white paper.

So if I can help please ask.

Cyril PIERRE de GEYER

]]> By: Dennis Popel http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-87 Dennis Popel Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:54:08 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-87 Hello, I will gladly publish business cases and success stories of companies that migrated to PHP5 or develop PHP5 software on www.onPHP5.com site. Please submit to news at onphp5 dot com. Hello,

I will gladly publish business cases and success stories of companies that migrated to PHP5 or develop PHP5 software on http://www.onPHP5.com site. Please submit to news at onphp5 dot com.

]]> By: saumendra http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-77 saumendra Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:04:25 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-77 Creating a Resource , is a hectic job indeed.But it is possible if every one of us from the Php Community make an good effort to standardise PHP, and may someone by the name PayGates create a company Names MacroSofts. Creating a Resource , is a hectic job indeed.But it is possible if every one of us from the Php Community make an good effort to standardise PHP, and may someone by the name PayGates create a company Names MacroSofts.

]]> By: Rick http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-59 Rick Sat, 03 Feb 2007 13:42:44 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-59 I'm not opposed to a "why PHP" document being written. I'm aware that the rest of this comment may not allude to that, however I'm very much in favour of PHP in the development world... when it makes sense. As a matter of fact, I'm not even talking about the "why PHP" document, but what I'm going off on a diatribe about is semi-related, and in some part based on comments to this blog posting. There are hundreds of programming languages available. Some of them have been around for years; COBOL, FORTRAN, C, ASM (yes it counts as a programming language), SNOBAL, TRUCK, TRAIN, BASIC, SHORTYELLOWBUS, and all of them have a simple premise (I may or may not have to invent some new programming languages after that last block in the sentence): they provide a set of tools to accomplish a general problem in a hopefully efficient way. The example given in the original blog post was in reference to "Why Java, Why not PHP?" Wa'hey! If you have a team of 3-900 Java developers on your development staff, coupled with hundreds of thousands of lines of Java code embedded into a primarily Java based architecture, and you have a consulting firm coming in saying, "HEY USE PHP LOL" then said consulting firm is going to look like a retard. I'll continue my pointless argument on a lighter note though... even though I suddenly feel like a Bush supporter. PHP is incredibly good for rapidly developing web applications, even well architectured applications. Hey, it's even moderately convenient for CLI-based applications. The biting factors start coming in with (and this could provide a starting point for this pro-PHP document): q) "oh but the language is so young." a): so is veal, and so are most other languages. Hey there's lots of bugs too. Makes life exciting. q) The core developers, we hear, bicker a lot and act like school children fighting over who gets to hang upside-down from the monkey bars next; is this true? a) Can't argue with you there, but some of it has to do with language barriers and cultural differences that your sheltered ass has no clue about. The rest has to do with the monkey bars, you're right. q) PHP is insecure a) PHP simply joined the club -- it's cool now q) There are more Java programmers than PHP programmers a) They haven't finished college yet. We're all Java programmers at heart. System.out.println("I can code Java, but PHP = 1337"); q) We heard that the general intellectual capacity of PHP programmers extends to the point of general stupidity a) Did we mention yet that we have the largest collection of shit code ever developed? We could further mention that a lot of it has seen massive popularity. q) So why PHP? a) Because I know it. I’m not opposed to a “why PHP” document being written. I’m aware that the rest of this comment may not allude to that, however I’m very much in favour of PHP in the development world… when it makes sense. As a matter of fact, I’m not even talking about the “why PHP” document, but what I’m going off on a diatribe about is semi-related, and in some part based on comments to this blog posting.

There are hundreds of programming languages available. Some of them have been around for years; COBOL, FORTRAN, C, ASM (yes it counts as a programming language), SNOBAL, TRUCK, TRAIN, BASIC, SHORTYELLOWBUS, and all of them have a simple premise (I may or may not have to invent some new programming languages after that last block in the sentence): they provide a set of tools to accomplish a general problem in a hopefully efficient way. The example given in the original blog post was in reference to “Why Java, Why not PHP?”

Wa’hey! If you have a team of 3-900 Java developers on your development staff, coupled with hundreds of thousands of lines of Java code embedded into a primarily Java based architecture, and you have a consulting firm coming in saying, “HEY USE PHP LOL” then said consulting firm is going to look like a retard. I’ll continue my pointless argument on a lighter note though… even though I suddenly feel like a Bush supporter.

PHP is incredibly good for rapidly developing web applications, even well architectured applications. Hey, it’s even moderately convenient for CLI-based applications. The biting factors start coming in with (and this could provide a starting point for this pro-PHP document):
q) “oh but the language is so young.”
a): so is veal, and so are most other languages. Hey there’s lots of bugs too. Makes life exciting.

q) The core developers, we hear, bicker a lot and act like school children fighting over who gets to hang upside-down from the monkey bars next; is this true?
a) Can’t argue with you there, but some of it has to do with language barriers and cultural differences that your sheltered ass has no clue about. The rest has to do with the monkey bars, you’re right.

q) PHP is insecure
a) PHP simply joined the club — it’s cool now

q) There are more Java programmers than PHP programmers
a) They haven’t finished college yet. We’re all Java programmers at heart. System.out.println(”I can code Java, but PHP = 1337″);

q) We heard that the general intellectual capacity of PHP programmers extends to the point of general stupidity
a) Did we mention yet that we have the largest collection of shit code ever developed? We could further mention that a lot of it has seen massive popularity.

q) So why PHP?
a) Because I know it.

]]> By: Raymond Olavides http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-36 Raymond Olavides Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:07:39 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-36 Hi Stu, Terribly sorry to have misunderstood your point and went off topic. Thanks for the kind clarification. Hi Stu,

Terribly sorry to have misunderstood your point and went off topic. Thanks for the kind clarification.

]]> By: Stu http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-35 Stu Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:24:23 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-35 Hi Raymond, With all respect, I don't understand your comment, and I suspect you've misunderstood the kind of resource I'm asking for. I don't understand how you can say that corporates don't care what language a product is written in, when that's exactly the problem I'm asking for a resource to help tackle. (As a former manager with a major corporate, I can categorically state from the other side of the fence that corporates really do care, when it comes to major software purchases that runs on its own dedicated hardware, which is the level we sell at work). I'm all for a community resource, but the resource I'm after is specifically the business case for PHP. The audience of such a case isn't developers (although it needs to include them). It isn't necessarily the IT Department (although, again, it needs to include them). The audience of the business case are the folks who sign the purchase order, or who sit on the boards deciding on the results of their tender process. I agree that there needs to be advocacy for PHP the language (and I'm currently planning a blog article about that), but that isn't the resource I'm talking about in this blog article. Best regards, Stu Hi Raymond,

With all respect, I don’t understand your comment, and I suspect you’ve misunderstood the kind of resource I’m asking for.

I don’t understand how you can say that corporates don’t care what language a product is written in, when that’s exactly the problem I’m asking for a resource to help tackle. (As a former manager with a major corporate, I can categorically state from the other side of the fence that corporates really do care, when it comes to major software purchases that runs on its own dedicated hardware, which is the level we sell at work).

I’m all for a community resource, but the resource I’m after is specifically the business case for PHP. The audience of such a case isn’t developers (although it needs to include them). It isn’t necessarily the IT Department (although, again, it needs to include them). The audience of the business case are the folks who sign the purchase order, or who sit on the boards deciding on the results of their tender process.

I agree that there needs to be advocacy for PHP the language (and I’m currently planning a blog article about that), but that isn’t the resource I’m talking about in this blog article.

Best regards,
Stu

]]> By: Raymond Olavides http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-34 Raymond Olavides Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:48:32 +0000 http://blog.stuartherbert.com/php/2007/01/17/missing-the-business-case-for-php/#comment-34 Why not have this kind of initiative come from both worlds. From a company's perspective and from a developer/community's point of view. Maybe the problem with this is that most PHP developers think so lowly of themselves and wouldn't stand up for their ground. afaik, "the corporate world" or "the enterprise" cares less about which technology/language is being used as long as it gets the job done and does it well. Two of the few factors I've come across with that affects this business decision are legacy app support and I.T. Heads who are fanatic to the language they've learned. Developers from other languages are not being restricted to be a bit of "masochist" and "fanatic" to the their PL, why not allow PHP Developers to be so. I believe there are a handful of great "fanatic" PHP Dev around who can provide this resource for the community. Some of the challenge with this though is how to prevent bashings and PL Wars. This will also lift and encourage new developers to take PHP and evangelize it. I believe it does not matter wherever this will come from, this'll serve as a seed for the future of PHP and its developers. Why not have this kind of initiative come from both worlds. From a company’s perspective and from a developer/community’s point of view.

Maybe the problem with this is that most PHP developers think so lowly of themselves and wouldn’t stand up for their ground. afaik, “the corporate world” or “the enterprise” cares less about which technology/language is being used as long as it gets the job done and does it well. Two of the few factors I’ve come across with that affects this business decision are legacy app support and I.T. Heads who are fanatic to the language they’ve learned.

Developers from other languages are not being restricted to be a bit of “masochist” and “fanatic” to the their PL, why not allow PHP Developers to be so. I believe there are a handful of great “fanatic” PHP Dev around who can provide this resource for the community. Some of the challenge with this though is how to prevent bashings and PL Wars.

This will also lift and encourage new developers to take PHP and evangelize it. I believe it does not matter wherever this will come from, this’ll serve as a seed for the future of PHP and its developers.

]]>